Transcription

ANT MILLER: So I am Ant Miller I am your MC for Track A this morning going all the way through to lunch. We have Carol at the back, Carol you will have noticed holding, wearing the localhost T-shirt, Dave at the front is time keeper, then Q&A session at the end of the other sessions, these guys are mic running, watch out for the microphones, we do ask when we get to Q&A you use a microphone, helps enormously for these guys doing the transcription and also for accessibility purposes, and the video that gets recorded too.

Are we there, or thereabouts? We might get a video clip, you guys are okay with aspect-ratio fan-dangling, you are a tolerant bunch.

This is a really great start, what we have got is a couple of very quick sessions, introducing you to WordCamp as a whole, WordCamp London is a first for a lot of people and an explanation of the value of codes of conduct, real world examples, how to get the most out of WordCamp, WordCamp code of conduct, then an example of the classic WordCamp presentation, how you can use specific technology in the business, in the way you use WordPress as well, three fantastic speakers coming up, before you know it they’ll be here on the stage!! In fact they could wave and say hello now, so here is Wendie Huis in ‘t Veld, Wendie will be up first, then we have, Marco, the pronunciation has gone again, Marco Calicchia and Heather Dopson, will be up with the video piece in not very much time of course, everything I’ve been saying is being relayed by the lovely, people the transcription team, they’re fabulous, they will be hammering away on their keyboards all weekend, their value is amazing, you can check on Twitter, check up on the last few minutes of what has been said on the stage, it’s rather subliminal, fantastic. Gosh. How do we think we are doing? That’s about the patter for this time in the morning. Is that all you needed to do, press, “Play”, okay, so that worked! [Laughter] — great then!! No, no, that’s fine. If right well then, welcome to Track A, [Applause].

First up we have Wendie Huis in ‘t Veld, who is going to tell us all about the real value of codes of conduct with some real-life examples, some harem-scarem examples, we will do them all together at the end, with all three lightning speakers we will be a little bit squeezed for time on those, just to give the guys Tom to get them out, we will try and finish on the dot so everyone can get to and from the session. Wendie, would you like to join me on the stage and away we go with Track A, thank you Wendie. [Applause].

WENDIE HUIS IN ‘T VELD: Great, so this is awesome. My name is Wendie, my talk is going to be about love, I hope. Let’s see if this works… it’s not going to the next slide… which would be nice. This is my name, Wendie Huis in ‘t Veld, it’s Dutch name, well I am Dutch, so that’s logical. It’s a full sentence, I translated it for you, it’s ‘house in the field’, if you translate it. My company is called websiteclub, I teach people how to use WordPress and build their own websites and nowadays I usually use page builders to do that, my Twitter handle is called @dolgelukkig, I tried changing it to websiteclub, then it didn’t feel like me, so I kept it for the English-speaking people, it means ‘extremely happy”, or ‘ecstatic’, it’s a Dutch word, it’s untranslatable, I like it so I’m keeping it.

Today I want to talk to you about the code of conduct, the code of conduct is a piece of information which I assume you all read, buying a ticket means you have to agree to the code of conduct. The code of conduct is a big list and t mainly says this, “Our community should be truly open for everyone. As such we are committed to providing a friendly, safe and welcoming environment for all.”

So why do I talk about the code of conduct? I read it, I’ve been to several WordCamps, I read it, every time I thought oh well, great. It didn’t really, the impact of the code of conduct, it really didn’t hit me until I was at WordCamp Vienna last year, WordCamp Europe. Who was there? Was it great?

FROM THE FLOOR: Yes.

WENDIE HUIS IN ‘T VELD: It was such a great event, I had such a great time, I was one of the volunteers, like these guys, you see them at the back. The day before the event we had a meeting to get all the information as volunteers and we also got these awesome green T-shirts that, like the localhost T-shirts that you have here in London and the set crew, so everybody knew who to talk through when they had a question. There was one, tiny little problem, I didn’t fit in the shirt. The sizes they had were not my size. So, I had a different shirt. This is me, in the middle. I am surrounded by Wendies because there are three Wendie volunteers in Vienna. As you can see my shirt is quite a different colour. Did it bother me I had a different shirt? Well, kind of, did I share it with anyone? No, when you are more size the world tells you, the voices in my head were more ruthless, it’s my own fault, I shouldn’t have got this big, I should have been more aware, suck it up, take care, laugh about it and just move on. So that’s what I did. Together with the other Wendies we had lots of fun, we had fun about three Wendies being there, we had fun about the T-shirt, because to be honest I was the only one in the light green T-shirt and it’s still touching me. Every time someone asked about why I’m in the light green T-shirt, I said, “I’m the only special volunteer, I am the special one”, as you can see it did show quite a lot, I made fun of it, I had a great time at the, at the event and then something happened, so what has this got to do with the code of conduct and what has this got to do with love?

Well, thereafter first day of the event, Luca, came to me, he said, “I’m sorry, I’m sorry you have to wear a different coloured T-shirt, I’m sorry that we didn’t take care of it to have a same colour in your size” it made me cry. It made me cry because, his apology made me realise how vulnerable I am and it made me realise how fragile my confidence is about my body, but it also made me realise how awesome the WordPress community is, because I was the only one wearing the shirt, I was aware of it but nobody at WordCamp Europe, nobody, there were over 2,000 people there made me feel uncomfortable. No one. So, it made me cry, big time. I don’t cry. All right, it started in Vienna, I’m still crying about it. Usually I don’t cry, I cried. Someone took over my afternoon shift, I couldn’t stop crying. Him noticing and taking the time to tell me, it touched my heart.

After I stopped crying there was a ball, he was there, we had a party it was great.

When we went home I thought about what happened, it was like a tiny incident, but it was a big massive thing for me. I cried some more, I really, really, cried a lot. Then I started talking, I started talking to my friends about what had happened and how do I make this, all those tears into something that was worth sharing? The best thing I learnt about Luca, the T-shirt there are three things when you want to create a safe, friendly environment for all, I wanted to be like that. I wanted to be like in my home in my work, in my own environment, I wanted to create that. I brought it down to three things that you need to do to create an environment like that, first of all you have to care, you have to care about people, but to start you have to care about yourself. You have to care, if you don’t care it’s never going to happen. Second of all and this is where the code of conduct comes in you have to write down your intentions. You have to write them down, because if you don’t write them down you are just, they are just flying in the air, if you write them down you know what is expected to be a person who cares and… something else, which comes with writing down, you can make yourself accountable, did I care? Did I do the right thing? I expect myself to be someone who cares, I wrote down the rules for caring as I want them to be and I can check did I do it. Last of all, you have to be aware, what makes it so special and what Luca did for me every time life gets in the way, I start yelling at my kids yelling at my computer, I’m upset because there is a line, I’m aware that that is what happens and I’m aware that I want to be a person who cares, so I go back to my list and I check, all right, I want to be a person who cares, how do I do it? Then I can go back to being a person who cares. Bottom line for me is that I want to be a person who loves. I love WordCamp, I love the people who are in WordCamp, the code of conduct gives me a guideline to be the kind of person that I want to be, the kind of person that I would love to be and a kind of person who loves to be around you guys, and the bottom line for me is, after the T-shirt incident, what I learned it’s not about making someone feel special, because that is the easy part, it’s about taking responsibility to make everybody feel normal. Thank you. Thank you. [Applause].

ANT MILLER: I now have something in my eye. Thank you very much Wendie. What a marvellous way to start these things. I am not going to waste much time keep cracking on, so questions at the end. Marco, take it away.

MARCO CALICCHIA: Everyone hear me, can we get another round of applause, it touched me that was amazing. (applause) I guess I will just take it continue from where you left it off, this is pretty much what we’re here for. To present myself, my name is Marco Calicchia, I work for SiteGround, enterprise manager, that’s better, I live in Sofia at the headquarters, actually grew up in Greece, I am Italian American but my parents grew up in US I have travel Ltd. round the world, I attended my first WordCamp back in October, and now I have been to three WordCamps. So, I mean it’s a journey, it’s quite a journey. We’re SiteGround we’re 430 employees we sponsor over 40 WordCamps, this is why we attend a lot of them, we try to contribute back to all the events and to make what Wendie just said to try to grow this love. So, what I want to talk about is the things that you miss if you don’t really research well for the WordCamps. I mean I have come from a corporate background I used to work at EventBrite, used to work at Samsung, Sony, I have a then attended a lot of expos. This is going from corporate events and coming to WordCamps, there is certain things I want to teach you how to make the most out of, how to do it before, during and after WordCamps and how to contribute back to these events.

So, the first thing I want to talk about is researching the schedule, we’re here like we, this is a very cheap event – I mean it’s a very expensive event given us to at a very cheap price. You want to make the most out of it you spend three days coming here, you want to make sure that you research all the leads that you research all the sessions that you want to attend so there’s a lot of conflicting sessions, so even this morning I have my session with Wendie and Heather, but there’s another three sessions going on. So, you want to make sure that you see which sessions you want to attend and which ones are most important for you. Usually the schedule is up two months before the event, we were confirmed I think back in January, which was already a little bit on the verge, a little bit late, so you want to make sure that you go online and see what the schedule is like, and select the sessions that you want attend.

The other key things are the side events, yesterday we had a volunteer event, there’s also a lot all the major sponsors through after parties that you want to make sure to check on Twitter, see what’s going on, ping people, make sure that you want to see all the events that you want to try and attend and meet all the community, this is what we’re here for after all. We want to try to meet everyone that is attending here. It’s also the contributor day sometimes it’s after the event sometimes it’s before the event, the actual WordCamp. So, in WordCamp London today so it was yesterday. So you want to make sure that you arrive before the contributors day because it’s actually really important to be there, the community gives back to WordPress a lot so you want to make sure that you try and attend, meet a lot of people, see what’s going on. There’s a lot of insights anything, I would say try and fly in either before the contributor’s day or if it after the WordCamp, try to fly out the day after and attend it for a few hours, even for an hour makes a big difference.

The next thing is attendance the attendee list is really important it’s usually online, the organisers will put it on you can see who is attending, but there’s also lectures, you want to be certain see which lectures are important for you based on the knowledge, I have already spoken to a lot of people this morning, who are here I prefer developer, or in my case some people are here more for the business talks to try to get more community involvement also with volunteers.

So, you can see exactly who is talking where to attend your event and try and also schedule meetings, and that’s my next point. The next thing you want to do is to try to schedule meetings, there’s always something going to happen. I mean I have a massive list of things that I want to do and people that I want to see in sessions that I want to attend, but it’s not always the case that I get to all of them. What you want to do is try to schedule the meetings with people that you want to see, the sessions you want to go to and try to stick to that. It’s not set that you have to, but it will keep you in line with the sessions and the people you want to talk to.

During the event, I would like you to engage in conversations, so like I said you will have a list but don’t stick by it. This is just guidelines, I would say this conduct of the guideline that you want to follow. But you will be going to want to engage with everyone. This morning when I was sitting down having a coffee at 7 o’clock in the morning, I was already talking to all the volunteers, all the organisers, they are here from 8 o’clock in the morning until 6pm, so we’re going to get stressed out pulled left and right you will want to engage with everyone that comes and talks to you, everyone has something interesting to talk about. Like Wendie says here sharing love, this is what we’re here for we’re not here to stand out or to trying to be insecure to anyone else, we’re trying to give back to community so engage with everyone that comes up to you asks you any questions, give them some time, some people are first timers. Some people have been here for over 10 WordCamp if not more. You want to make sure you are given them your time they also give you the time back.

Last but not least, drink before and after the event. I would like you to all be on Twitter. And also keep in touch. So, the best way we all have handles, Twitter handles so I would like you to keep in touch on Twitter if you don’t have one, make sure you create one. The WordPress community is there it’s not a convention it’s a community and this where I think most of us spend our lot of our times it’s on Twitter. Already posted 5 tweets, everyone from this morning that I have seen the sponsors has been on Twitter, already posting you can check out pretty much all the news who is giving out swag, who is talking about any sessions that are gone on, organisers, post the latest news on Twitter you want to make sure to be there. Then you want to follow a lot of people, once you do the event you want to follow up with the people that you spoke to, so you spend days and days meeting with people, preparing yourself for this event, so you want to make sure that you follow up with that person. You know it’s going to be time lost, you have come here for several days talking for hours and hours, about partnerships, collaborations, making friendships, and all of a sudden you go home and forget about it. You want to keep in touch with people, either have business cards – that’s another point, bring your business cards keep in touch of Twitter, ping them, let them know you had a good time you would have love to meet with them at other WordCamps. We always keep in touch, and pretty much everyone I have met at WordCamps we always talk on Twitter or Facebook we try to organise trips, I don’t know, well I have a lot of people from Serbia, Greece, Italy, Spain, US, I have met people that grew up in my same town, who are from California we all grew up in Greece together. You meet people you actually never knew that just lived close to you and so the world is really small. You want to make sure to give back to the community what they give to you.

Be more involved. So, I am very glad thank you for accepting me to be a speaker I am very glad to have this opportunity it’s great to give back to community you can apply with as many talks as you want. Mine is a very light one, it’s literally ecstatic for me when I heard I was accepted for WordCamp London I am really pleased so this one way to give back join the contributor day as I mentioned and also try to be a volunteer. If you want to organise your next event, the best ways to volunteer to this, and so you can apply to any event that you might want to attend so when I spoke to Petya from Human Made she said Marco we have over 200 people we need at WordCamp Europe it’s a good opportunity, then once you volunteered, you are more likely to organise your next event in your town so today might be London, tomorrow might be Brighton, I might we might do one in Sophia I might do one with the guys in Athens next year, they have the first one last year it was awesome, they had 400 people, gives me an opportunity to go back and relay I have the experience, we all have experience do another one.

That’s pretty much it. I hope next time I might create one for volunteers and speakers, and just keep growing, but I hope to see you all at different WordCamps from now on. Thank you. (applause).

ANT MILLER: Thank you Marco. Next up, we have Heather Dopson, this is if you like, transitioning from what is this all about the meta of WordCamp! And the code of conduct, now I believe this is kind of we’re into the meat of it now, this it. Brace yourselves how to use video in your content, and why you should be doing it as well. So please welcome to stage, Heather.

HEATHER DOPSON: Good morning. Thank you so much, this is Manny our mascot, I’m going to sit him up here he’s my good luck charm. Good morning my name is Heather Dopson I work for GoDaddy I am what’s called a community builder at GoDaddy, so Wendie and Marco amazing way to open the session this morning because I love community and what you just said it’s not a convention it a community, really touched my heart. Wendie you made me cry first thing in the morning, I don’t like that. But thank you. Seriously, fantastic.

So, what I am here to talk about today is how you can be using video, both live and recorded video, not only in the marketing, but also to use to build your community as well. One of the things that I do in GoDaddy I host a weekly live show on our Facebook page, that is designed to help people understand all of the elements that go into building a business. I don’t talk about products, I talk about how you can quit your JOB and find your JOY. We talk about what are the elements that should go on a website. The most viewed episode so far has been one with an attorney, belief it or not, because we talk about all of the different rules and regulations that you need to abide by. So we’re going to talk a little bit, very quickly today. This is a 60 minute session it been distilled to 10 minutes.

So I had some interesting conversations last night at the ping-pong place which by the way, how lucky are you guys to have a ping-pong place here it’s amazing. A few people said to me, I don’t understand why I need to be using video I am a developer or website professional, I don’t understand why I need to be using video in any capacity, especially live video. My question is, do you want to make money? Are you doing the things that you are doing to create income for yourself? If the answer is yes, using life video is a fantastic way to build a foundation of trust. If you can become a trusted authority in your field, you can absolutely create community, that trusts you and comes to you to find solutions for problems or to find information that they need, for themselves or to share with other members of your community.

When you get on a live video, you can create emotions, and those shared emotions are very powerful. I am not going to lie, Wendie, last week I was on Facebook live on my personal profile, and I was very tired after several days of work I don’t know how many days I have been gone now from the US on a trip, and I cried. I was so tired I cried. It creates this deeper bond and trust between you and your community. We do business with people because we know them, we like them and we trust them. So, I am going to challenge you all to get out, I am from Texas I am going to say y’all, to get out from behind your computer scientist screen and get in front of your computer screen and start using video in some creative ways, you can start doing it right here right now while you are at this great event.

One of the things I love the most about live video whether you are doing Facebook Live, Twitter Live, also known as Periscope or YouTube Live is you get instantaneous feedback. The difference between live and recorded video, is that you are actually having a conversation with the people who are watching you. It’s phenomenal because you are learning how they are reacting to the things that you are sharing in real time. How much money would you pay to have real time feedback for every single thing that you are doing. Real time feedback is so powerful, it also allows you to ask a question and help understand what your community needs from you, how you can improve the content that you are creating, not just from a video perspective, but what you are writing your blog posts or what you are writing in your social media posts, if your community is asking questions, you know that that is content you are creating, right there. The feedback is one of my favourite parts.

Consumption, so if we just look at Facebook live video only, in one year the amount of videos that have been consumed in only Facebook Live has almost doubled to eight billion views. Just on Facebook Live videos, eight billion views in one year. That is a massive amount of views. There is a very low barrier to entry to use any of these live platforms, all you need is your phone, provided you don’t have a flip phone, I don’t think anyone in here is using a flip phone anymore.

So, it’s important that you have a plan, you know, you need to have some type of guard rails, instead of just waking up and saying am going to make a video today, have some sort of structure, to discover what my audience wants, needs or if I even have an audience. Somebody said to me last night, “I don’t know if anybody would even watch, I don’t know if anybody would even care what I have to say”, I guarantee you 100% that people care what you have to say, I promise you, they do.

What there are ways that you can use video is to educate, so we all know that there are things that are far too complex to be understood if we are just typing them, or only using text. So, video is a fantastic way to be able to explain to people how to do something, how to create something. You can also share your screen when you are doing live videos, you can share visual aids that help your followers, your community, understand exactly what you are talking about.

FAQs, every website, every website has a FAQ section on it right? We know the questions that people are asking, this is a great way to create the videos, to create the content. If you hear at this event, you keep getting the same question asked multiple times or you get a very interesting, intriguing question where you think, I never thought about that, that’s an opportunity for you to create a video around that particular piece, that particular question. If one person is asking it, there are more people thinking it but just afraid to ask it.

One of my favourite uses of live video is for special announcements. So, if there is some hot and breaking news in the WordPress community, or in your community, or if there is some kind of ruling that impacts your on-line presence or the on-line presence of businesses wherever you are, using Live is a fantastic way to get on, really quickly, get in front of your community and share with them before anybody else does. This deepens your level of trust, you are becoming a trusted resource, sharing information, not selling, got that, share information, solve problems, stop selling.

Also, live events, so, there is a tremendous opportunity for you, here, while you are at WordCamp London to start using some live video. I don’t want you to record or broadcast the entire sessions without permission of the organisers, but snippets of sessions, or have a conversation with Wendie, find Wendie and have a conversation with her, because what she said was so compelling, do a live video with her. Go to the different sponsors that is correct here, use that as a live video, when you are using live video it save to your phone or to whatever platform you are using you can use it later and chop it up and repurpose it for different types of content, I’m going to challenge you all out here to do some sort of live video while you are at the event for two days, any questions, concerns or problems find me, I well be mostly be at the Go Daddy booth I’m happy to help you, we’ll get you up and running really quickly my challenge to you is to be brave, okay, I’m going to use Wendie as an example, getting up here and being vulnerable and open and sharing her heart and fears with us today, okay. If Wendie can do, everybody in here can do it! It’s true, Wendie said, it’s true.

So, get over your fears. Okay. Get over it usually use the word BS, fears are BS, dangerous, real fear is BS. Everybody out here’s, everybody has something that they don’t like about themselves, I don’t like voice, my face, my hair, my weight, my clothes, I don’t have anything to say, nobody will care about what I have to say, it’s all bullshit you guys, it really is. Get over the fears; brave, take a risk, take some risk I want to see everybody do a bit of live video while you are here, I’m here, if you need help, guidance, I’m happy to help you, you guys have a fantastic WordCamp, thank you for welcoming me to London, it’s my first time to London, I’m having such a blast, thank you for inviting Manny and me to the event, you guys if you need anything I’m here for you.

NEW SPEAKER: Thank you very much Heather I’m going to invite all our speakers from the lightning talks back up stage, we have a couple of mic runners, we are a little bit squeezed for time, can we take questions from the floor, do we have questions from the floor for our presenters this morning. Oh yes, her we are, we have a question from the floor. Yes Sir, can you just say who the question is for.

FROM THE FLOOR: For Heather.

HEATHER DOPSON: Yes.

FROM THE FLOOR: Just wondering, with your live broadcast do you just, are you just using your phone or do you have other platforms to use, Go Live, are you more website based?

HEATHER DOPSON: That’s a great question for the weekly live show forego daddy I have a studio and software that I use, live streaming software that allows us to do some lower thirds and all of that, however, I’m not in the studio this week and I’m not in the studio next week, when I’m not in the studio I use my phone, I have a Galaxy S7, I use a RDE microphone, you don’t need high level production levels for your videos, when you are starting out just use your phone.

NEW SPEAKER: My first ever WordCamp was WordCamp Europe in Seville, massive, very daunting, I used, sort of interviews and stuff as a way to sort of get into it, now I have a face for radio, I do podcasting, I did, I just took a little audio recorder, each speaker that I found very, very interesting came off stage, I said can I do a piece with you to put on my podcast, on my blog I put together a podcast series from all the talks in Seville, video can be daunting, it’s a medium that people get, these technologies don’t need to be a barrier, they can be a door to have the conversations you want to have and share the conversations wider, you are being really generous when you do this, if you have a conversation with one person at WordCamp, you absolutely should as Marco says, you record that and share that wider that makes the whole community benefit even more from the meeting, so, it’s kind of good thing.

HEATHER DOPSON: Right if you have a follow-up come find me and I’ll answer your question.

THE CHAIR: There is a chap, just another one band. Oh, and then.

FROM THE FLOOR: Hi, Paul, I just wanted to ask you something, how much you prepare for each live video, because you probably don’t do it on the fly.
HEATHER DOPSON: So for the weekly live so I prepare a week in advance I generally know who my guests are going to be a month ahead of time, I do one, one hour show per week, I take about three hours ahead of that to prepare that and I take two hours afterwards to do post production and some other things, I’m about to turn to the show into a podcast as well, I also go live on the fly, I do that, but when I come to an event like this, I do what Marco suggested, I look at who the presenters are, what the sessions are and make a plan, an outline of what I’m going to do, so I kind of have an idea in my head, I have moments, ‘parking lot’ moments, I’m in the parking lot, I’m going live right now, I do both from Go Daddy Facebook as well as my own personal stuff, so it’s a mixture.

THE CHAIR: One more in, yes, I think.

FROM THE FLOOR: Hello, yeah, I know all three of you and I like you as much I’m going to ask a super short question for each and every one of you. Wendie, let’s start with you, I’ll just ask my questions: was it hard for you to share, we spoke about the volunteer stuff and everything, was it hard for you, I want you to, your talk encouraged everyone, was it hard for you to just share what you felt.

WENDIE HUIS IN ‘T VELD: It still makes me cry, of course, it’s hard.

FROM THE FLOOR: I tried, again.

WENDIE HUIS IN ‘T VELD: It’s important it gets told, it is what this community is, so I wanted to share and I was praying last week, I shared it with a friend and I was crying, I was hoping not to do it today, I just have one nice tear, so that’s okay.

FROM THE FLOOR: Heather for the first episode and to help to encourage people to start using live, what should it do, what should it talk about, as you said, no one knows how to start, I don’t have anything to share, what do you suggest.

HEATHER DOPSON: So my advice is in the wisdom of Nike, just do it. It’s getting past that very first one that helps you to move on to the next one. Think WHO your audience is, think about what you want to talk about, what would you sit down and have a discussion with me on over a beer, what would you talk about? Just do that. Be casual, you don’t have to be presenting and presenting, be casual, have a casual conversation.

FROM THE FLOOR: Marco, your favourite WordCamp, your favourite WordCamp so far?

MARCO CALICCHIA: My favourite one…? Umm… yeah, it literally just started, so I’ll give it a few days, I’ll let you know tomorrow, so far, I would say Athens it was the first one for them, they put a lot into it, it’s where I met you guys as well. It’s my, I grew up there, it’s in my heart, they did an awesome job for the first event, big round of applause for them, definitely for me it’s Athens, if London takes over…

THE CHAIR: We have a lot to live up to, okay, okay, cool. Thank you for all are speakers for the lightning sessions getting Track A off to a fab start this morning, thank you for sharing, thank you for encouraging us all. We get a break now, we get half an hour to switch around, we will be continuing with tales from the client side with Tom Chute from Pragmatic, how to create and foster loving client relationships, it’s all about the love today in here. Track B if you want to head over to Track B will be getting your plugin ready for the new WordPress Plugin Directory, things are changing fast in the plug anyone directory, here Alexander track, object oriented user, we look at the editor and customiser over the next 18 months, this approach can be crucial as well, we’ll see you back here in about 26 minutes, with Tom Chute. Thank you very much.